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2/11/2018 6:00:50 AMagence matrimoniale rencontre femmes russes The 4th. commandment 

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Let me be clear,I,m not posting this to bash someone or a church,If you disagree then respond to it with Scripture.My intention is hold to the Truth of Scripture and bring some clarity to the True body of Christ.rt

Exodus chapter 20
verse 8. “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servants or your cattle or your sojourner - ” or stranger “ - who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”

There is no question about the other nine commandments being permanent and binding. We are to have no other gods. We are never to make an idol. We are to worship only the true and living God. We are never to take the name of the Lord in vain. We are not to dishonor our father or mother, but rather give them honor. We are not to murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, or covet.

Those are all moral mandates, moral commands, with the exception of verses 8 through 11, the fourth command regarding the sabbath. And the question that is often posed is a simple one. If all the other commands are permanent, is not this one permanent, as well?

Is it correct that we should be observing Saturday, the old sabbath, or perhaps Sunday as a kind of new replacement sabbath as a holy day, set apart from all other days?

Well, to answer that, we need to go back to Genesis chapter 2. So let’s do that. Genesis chapter 2. The chapter opens with the indication that creation is over. And we read these words, “Then the heavens and the earth were completed and all their hosts - ” everything that occupies them. “By the seventh day, God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”

You will notice in verse 3 the word “sanctified.” That word is essentially the word “holy” and this is the first time the word “holy” is used in the Bible. The root means “to separate,” or perhaps better, to turn that into a vertical concept, “to elevate.” It is a separation that elevates or exalts.

So here, for the first time, we come across the idea of something being separated by being elevated. That is, God designates this seventh day as an exalted day, a day lifted above all other days. And God makes it holy, and declares it to be so for three reasons. The three reasons are basically connected to the three verbs that make up the text.

First of all, it is a day that is unique because the heavens and the earth were completed and all their hosts. That’s the first verb, the whole work of creation was finished. This work of creation was done in six essentially 24-hour days by God, and since that close of the sixth day, there has never been any further creation with the exception of those divine miracles that we have read about occasionally in the Old Testament, and the flurry of miracles through the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, in which He creates wholeness and wellness within the midst of His now fallen creation.

Apart from that, creation ceased on the sixth day. It didn’t go on for thousands of years. It didn’t go on for millions or billions of years. After six days it was finished, it was completed. And so, this is a special day because it signals that God’s entire creation is finished.


Secondly is the verb “rested.” When it says in verse 2 that “by the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested.” And then in verse 3 again, “He rested from all His work which God had created and made.” This is a unique day because the creation being completed, God stops and rests.

Does not imply weariness. The Lord does not grow weary, Isaiah 40:28. The Psalmist says He doesn’t slumber or sleep. He rested only in the sense that He ceased from work, not that He had to replenish His energy. But what it tells us when He rested is really that He was satisfied. And that takes you back to 1:31, “God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good.” It was a perfect work, and it was the rest of utter satisfaction.

And by the way, there would be no more creation, and for a little while there was no more work for God to do. God didn’t go to work again until the 3rd chapter of Genesis, not very long, when Adam and Eve fell and God had to go to work. And what was the first thing that God did? 3:21, “The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.” And then He drove them out of the garden.

God did no work between the end of creation and the fall of man. And with the fall of man, God’s work began again. God had to preserve as Hebrews 1 says, He had to “uphold by His power His creation” because it was now subject to decay. And so, He went to work to preserve the universe that He had made, the creation that He has made, and He also went to work to fulfill all aspects necessary in the redemption of that creation.

Now, you do not hear in those three verses anything about people resting. There’s nothing here about man resting, nothing here about Adam resting, and because he was without sin and a perfect man in every sense, there was no depletion of his energies when he was doing whatever the simple tending of the garden called for. There’s no need to have a day of rest for man. What would he rest from? He’s living in a paradise with no labor, and no sweat, and no expended and lost energy.

There’s no sabbath law given here for Adam, none at all. Nothing is said about this day being a day of worship. It doesn’t say anything about that. It doesn’t prescribe anything for anyone. It is isolated completely to God. He completed His creation, satisfied with it, He ceased, which is constituting rest, and the third verb in verse 3, “He blessed the seventh day.”

He designed that that seventh day would be a special memorial to His creation and its original perfection. This is so important for you to understand. This is a day to be elevated above all other days as a memorial to remember the glory of God’s perfection in creation. Every seventh day from here on out would be a reminder that God in six days created the universe in perfection.

cont.

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2/11/2018 6:07:36 AMpremière rencontre avec un ami The 4th. commandment 

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So, when you go back to Genesis chapter 2, there’s no mention of sabbath being a law, no mention of sabbath being a day of worship. The next time you even run into the word is in Exodus 16.

The first time the sabbath is mentioned in some significant way is in the 16th chapter of Exodus when God feeds the people manna from heaven as they wander in the wilderness, and the manna comes every day except the sabbath day, and the day before they get enough for that day so that they don’t have to work on that day. And that gives them a little preview of what’s coming because in the 20th chapter you have the ten commandments, and in the ten commandments, which I just read to you, prescriptions are given that do set down laws for the sabbath day. This is the first time any such laws have been given by God.

This is very important so that we understand that the sabbath was not instituted for man in Genesis. It was instituted officially in Exodus in the law of Moses. A further understanding of that comes from Exodus chapter 31. You might want to look at it for a minute. The Lord speaks to Moses in verse 12 and He says to him, “As for you, speak to the sons of Israel saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; - ” Why? “ - for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased; and was refreshed,’ ” or rested.
Here we find that sabbath is a sign. It is a sign. That is to say, it points to something else. It is a symbol, if you will. It is placed in the middle, or near the middle, of the ten commandments because it is a symbol connected to the Mosaic covenant.

Let me see if I can help you with that. When God made a covenant with Noah, He promised Noah that He would never destroy the world again and God identified a sign. What was the sign of the Noahic Covenant? Rainbow. When God made a covenant with Abraham, He made that covenant with Abraham and He designated a sign, and the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant, participation among the covenant people Israel, was the sign of circumcision.

And here you have in the Mosaic Covenant another sign, and the sign this time is the sabbath. It was only a sign. Observing it with a duplicitous heart gained nothing. In fact, Isaiah 1:13 says, “Bring your worthless offerings no longer, incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath.”

The prophet Hosea pronounces a similar judgment on their hypocritical sabbaths. “I will put an end to all her gaiety, her feasts, her new moons, or sabbaths.” It didn’t mean anything to observe it outwardly without a heart of love and devotion to God.

But what was the symbol for? What was the sign for? Why this sign? I think you’ll understand this when I explain it. The sabbath was a reminder of creation. The sabbath was to remind the people of Israel that they had forfeited paradise, that man had forfeited paradise. The law said to them, “Obey this law and you will be blessed.” God said that repeatedly, “Obey this law and you will be blessed,” to show them that righteous behavior would restore a taste of Eden’s paradise. Righteous behavior would also point to a future, a future kingdom when paradise would be regained.

will continue:

2/11/2018 7:54:01 AMpeul rencontre The 4th. commandment 

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Some of my same thoughts! And especially the idea of the Sabbath being a 'sign' which will find fulfillment, just as the rainbow and circumcision do. Looking forward to reading more.

2/11/2018 10:02:24 AMphrase amorce rencontre The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from brashdoc:
Some of my same thoughts! And especially the idea of the Sabbath being a 'sign' which will find fulfillment, just as the rainbow and circumcision do. Looking forward to reading more.


Thanks Doc,

So the sabbath, every sabbath that went by when they rested, they were reminded of a perfect creation, a paradise of God dominated by righteousness, which had been forfeited by sin and could only be regained again by righteousness. God then institutes the seventh-day system, not for everybody in the world. In fact, specifically it says for Israel. Verse 17, “A sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.” Every seventh day was a reminder that they were living in a fallen world. Every seventh day was a reminder that they had lost paradise. And the only way to regain a taste of paradise was obedience to God, righteousness.

And they therefore were to consider the importance of obeying the ten commandments. They were to consider the importance on that seventh day of examining their own lives and looking at how they were measuring up against the law of God. Recognizing sin was the objective, and bringing them to repentance.

So the first seventh day identified God as Creator, but the institution of the sabbath in the Mosaic economy identified God as the law-giver. The first view was to produce gratitude for the wonder of creation. The second, to produce repentance for the forfeiture of all that is right. And so, the sabbath took on a new meaning. Yes, it still is a reminder that God created, but it’s a reminder that the creation of God which was originally perfect is now marred, and we are marred, and the realm of His creation is stained by sin, and we are stained by sin, and the creation, as Paul puts it, is groaning, and we are groaning, as well.

Matthew 12

5Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

verse 5.

“ ‘Or have you not read in the law, that on the sabbath the priests in the temple break the sabbath and are innocent?’ ” You all make a big issue out of not working on the sabbath. Guess what? While you’re not working, all the priests are working, carrying out all the offerings and all the sacrifices.

Which reminds us that this law is not moral, it’s symbolic. So Jesus, rather than acquiescing to their concern over a violation of the sabbath, points to other violations of the sabbath. In verse 8, He says, “The Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.” He can do anything He wants with the sabbath. He can institute it. He can make commands for restrictions. He can require death for violation of those commands, as in the Mosaic law, or He can set it aside totally. He can abrogate it. He can nullify it. And there is the transition that is taking place in the New Testament. As Jesus arrives, everything that is part of the system of Judaism is coming to its end.

So our Lord has given the sabbath to be a blessing to man, to give him rest from his work, a taste of Eden where all was rest before the fall, to give him an opportunity to thank God for the creation, and then to examine his life against the law. And seeing the sin there, seek for forgiveness and mercy, and the result in joy and peace and salvation.
John 5.

in verse 5, “A man was there who had been ill for 38 years. When Jesus saw him lying there, He knew that he had already been a long time in that condition, He said to him, ‘Do you wish to get well?’ The sick man answered Him, “Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, but while I am coming, another steps down before me.’ ” T “And Jesus said to him, ‘Get up, pick up your pallet and walk.’ ” Very light straw mat could be rolled up under his shoulder. “Immediately the man became well - ” in verse 9 “ - picked up his pallet, began to walk.” Here’s the rub. “Now it was a sabbath that day.”

Old Testament law didn’t forbid walking, didn’t forbid carrying your pallet from one place to another. But rabbinic tradition had formulated, I don’t know, some say nearly 40 different forbidden activities. You see them in the Mishnah, one of which was carrying your mat. So Jesus had him violate the sabbath. He didn’t have to heal the man on the sabbath. He didn’t have to command the man to do something that violated their sabbath sensibilities. But He did it, and He did it purposely. Verse 15 says, “The man went away, told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the sabbath.”

Jesus would never violate the ten commandments. Jesus would never violate the law of God. He is holy, perfect, undefiled, separate from sinners. But Jesus did anything He wanted on the sabbath, and in the sight of the leaders in the doing of it, because it was part of bringing down that whole system.
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2/11/2018 11:28:54 AMrencontres internationales des jeunes chercheurs en patrimoine The 4th. commandment 
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But Jesus did anything He wanted on the sabbath, and in the sight of the leaders in the doing of it, because it was part of bringing down that whole system.


He did not want to bring down the Sabbath, but the false part of it, that is,the commands of men.

“I will put an end to all her gaiety, her feasts, her new moons, or sabbaths.” It didn’t mean anything to observe it outwardly without a heart of love and devotion to God.


Key words, Heart of Devotion and Love.

God was using Hosea as Prophet to warn of impending Judgement.

The Apostles, and Disciples in the early church, we're keeping the Sabbaths, Feasts, even after the ressurection and Acension. Leading by example.

Which reminds us that this law is not moral, it’s symbolic


Sorry, good try. It is a command, not an OPTION.

IT is SIN, not to keep the command. That's the LAW.

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Romans 7:6
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

The Priests had a different calling, so you can't make an excuse, like I'm A PRIEST. Therefore I'm not subject.

2/11/2018 12:55:30 PMbadoo rencontre homme la rochelle The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from Equalizer21:
Sorry, good try. It is a command, not an OPTION.

IT is SIN, not to keep the command. That's the LAW.

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Romans 7:6
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

The Priests had a different calling, so you can't make an excuse, like I'm A PRIEST. Therefore I'm not subject.


The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Ephesians 2.



For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, (Ephesians 2:14–15)

Christ forever broke down (the Greek aorist tense signifies completed action) every dividing wall by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. When Jesus died on the cross He abolished every barrier between man and God and between man and his fellow man. The greatest barrier between Jew and Gentile was the ceremonial law, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. The feasts, sacrifices, offerings, laws of cleanliness and purification, and all other such distinctive outward commandments for the unique separation of Israel from the nations were abolished.

That God’s moral law was not abolished is clear from the phrase contained in ceremonies. His moral law reflects His own holy nature and therefore can never change (cf. Matt. 5:17–19). That is the law which for the Jews was summarized in the Ten Commandments and which for all men is written on their hearts (Rom. 2:15) and still commanded of them (Matt. 22:37–40; Rom. 13:8–10). Jesus summarized God’s moral law still further by declaring, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you” (John 13:34). The Ten Commandments, like all of God’s moral laws, are but the structured and particularized love that God still requires (James 2:8).

All the ceremonial laws which distinguished and separated Jews from Gentiles were obliterated. Before Christ those groups could not eat together because of restricted foods, required washings, and ceremonial contamination. Now they could eat anything with anyone. Before Christ they could not worship together. A Gentile could not fully worship in the Jewish Temple, and a Jew would not worship in a pagan temple. In Christ they now worshiped together and needed no temple or other sacred place to sanctify it. All ceremonial distinctions and requirements were removed (cf. Acts 10:9–16; 11:17–18; Col. 2:16–17), that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace. The emphasis is again on in Himself, affirming that this new unity can occur only when men are united in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17)

Of primary concern to every faithful Jew seeking to evaluate Jesus was, “What does He think of the law; what does He think of Moses and the prophets?” The leaders often confronted Jesus on matters of the law. Many Jews believed that the Messiah would radically revise or completely overturn the Mosaic law and establish His own new standards. They interpreted Jeremiah 31:31 as teaching that God’s new promised covenant would annul the old covenant and start over on a completely new moral basis. Sickened of the demanding, hypocritical legalism of the Pharisees, many people hoped the Messiah would bring in a new day of freedom from the burdensome, mechanical, and meaningless demands of the traditional system.

The Law and the Prophets represent what we now call the Old Testament, the only written Scripture at the time Jesus preached (see Matt. 7:12; 11:13; 22:40; Luke 16:16; John 1:45; Acts 13:15; 28:23). It is therefore about the Old Testament that Jesus speaks in Matthew 5:17–20. Everything He taught directly in His own ministry, as well as everything He taught through the apostles, is based on the Old Testament. It is therefore impossible to understand or accept the New Testament apart from the Old.

Jesus’ warning, do not think, indicates that most, if not all, of His hearers had a wrong conception about His teaching. Most traditionalistic Jews considered the rabbinic instructions to be the proper interpretations of the law of Moses, and they concluded that, because Jesus did not scrupulously follow those traditions, He obviously was doing away with the law or relegating it to minor importance. Because Jesus swept away the traditions of washings, special tithes, extreme Sabbath observance, and such things, the people thought He was thereby overthrowing God’s law. From the outset, therefore, Jesus wanted to disabuse His hearers of any misconceptions about His view of Scripture.

Kataluo (abolish) means to utterly overthrow or destroy, and is the same word used of the destruction of the Temple (Matt. 24:2; 26:61; etc.) and of the death of the physical body (2 Cor. 5:1). The basic idea is to tear down and smash to the ground, to obliterate completely. In several places, as here, the word is used figuratively to indicate bringing to naught, rendering useless, or nullifying (see Acts 5:38–39; Rom. 14:20). Doing that to God’s law is the antithesis of the work and teaching of Jesus.

rt

2/11/2018 2:10:15 PMforum rencontre amoureuse sur internet The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from rtay:
Thanks Doc,

So the sabbath, every sabbath that went by when they rested, they were reminded of a perfect creation, a paradise of God dominated by righteousness, which had been forfeited by sin and could only be regained again by righteousness. God then institutes the seventh-day system, not for everybody in the world. In fact, specifically it says for Israel. Verse 17, “A sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.” Every seventh day was a reminder that they were living in a fallen world. Every seventh day was a reminder that they had lost paradise. And the only way to regain a taste of paradise was obedience to God, righteousness.

And they therefore were to consider the importance of obeying the ten commandments. They were to consider the importance on that seventh day of examining their own lives and looking at how they were measuring up against the law of God. Recognizing sin was the objective, and bringing them to repentance.

So the first seventh day identified God as Creator, but the institution of the sabbath in the Mosaic economy identified God as the law-giver. The first view was to produce gratitude for the wonder of creation. The second, to produce repentance for the forfeiture of all that is right. And so, the sabbath took on a new meaning. Yes, it still is a reminder that God created, but it’s a reminder that the creation of God which was originally perfect is now marred, and we are marred, and the realm of His creation is stained by sin, and we are stained by sin, and the creation, as Paul puts it, is groaning, and we are groaning, as well.

Matthew 12

5Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

verse 5.

“ ‘Or have you not read in the law, that on the sabbath the priests in the temple break the sabbath and are innocent?’ ” You all make a big issue out of not working on the sabbath. Guess what? While you’re not working, all the priests are working, carrying out all the offerings and all the sacrifices.

Which reminds us that this law is not moral, it’s symbolic. So Jesus, rather than acquiescing to their concern over a violation of the sabbath, points to other violations of the sabbath. In verse 8, He says, “The Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.” He can do anything He wants with the sabbath. He can institute it. He can make commands for restrictions. He can require death for violation of those commands, as in the Mosaic law, or He can set it aside totally. He can abrogate it. He can nullify it. And there is the transition that is taking place in the New Testament. As Jesus arrives, everything that is part of the system of Judaism is coming to its end.

So our Lord has given the sabbath to be a blessing to man, to give him rest from his work, a taste of Eden where all was rest before the fall, to give him an opportunity to thank God for the creation, and then to examine his life against the law. And seeing the sin there, seek for forgiveness and mercy, and the result in joy and peace and salvation.
John 5.

in verse 5, “A man was there who had been ill for 38 years. When Jesus saw him lying there, He knew that he had already been a long time in that condition, He said to him, ‘Do you wish to get well?’ The sick man answered Him, “Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, but while I am coming, another steps down before me.’ ” T “And Jesus said to him, ‘Get up, pick up your pallet and walk.’ ” Very light straw mat could be rolled up under his shoulder. “Immediately the man became well - ” in verse 9 “ - picked up his pallet, began to walk.” Here’s the rub. “Now it was a sabbath that day.”

Old Testament law didn’t forbid walking, didn’t forbid carrying your pallet from one place to another. But rabbinic tradition had formulated, I don’t know, some say nearly 40 different forbidden activities. You see them in the Mishnah, one of which was carrying your mat. So Jesus had him violate the sabbath. He didn’t have to heal the man on the sabbath. He didn’t have to command the man to do something that violated their sabbath sensibilities. But He did it, and He did it purposely. Verse 15 says, “The man went away, told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the sabbath.”

Jesus would never violate the ten commandments. Jesus would never violate the law of God. He is holy, perfect, undefiled, separate from sinners. But Jesus did anything He wanted on the sabbath, and in the sight of the leaders in the doing of it, because it was part of bringing down that whole system.
Study from gty.rt


Rtay: You should never, ever, attempt to prove or disprove the Holy Hebrew Bible from any teachings of the Lawless New Testimony. The Holy Hebrew Bible and the Lawless New Testimony are not compatible. It is like I have said before: The Holy Hebrew Bible is "The Tree of Life" and the Lawless New Testimony is "The tree of the knowledge of good (truths) and evil (lies). Attempting to prove or disprove the Holy Hebrew Bible with the unholy New Testimony is the very reason why there are 30,000 or so churches today and it is the very reason that there is so much confusion in those churches. Confusion only comes from the evil one. Adam and Eve accepted the teachings of "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil" and they were banned from Yahweh's Blessed Garden. We can only return to Yahweh's Rest/Garden/Paradise/Heaven by following "The Tree of Life".

Absolutely no one will return to Yahweh's Garden unless they follow/observe Yahweh's Laws, Torah and Commands. There are no shortcuts.

Steve

2/11/2018 2:30:52 PMskyblog rencontre avec joe black The 4th. commandment 

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Steve Quote:
Absolutely no one will return to Yahweh's Garden unless they follow/observe Yahweh's Laws, Torah and Commands. There are no shortcuts.

Thanks Steve for your comments and being respectful in your post. We just live in two different camps,If your out of bread,I will give you what I have,Hope you will do the same.rt

2/11/2018 3:18:33 PMrencontre clems The 4th. commandment 

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A Catholic perspective on this subject:

(all quotes from the Baltimore Catechism Three, p. 294-296, Tan Books © 2010)

"1247. Q. Is it forbidden, then, to seek any pleasure or enjoyment on Sunday?

A. It is not forbidden to seek lawful pleasure or enjoyment on Sunday, especially to those who are occupied during the week, for God did not intend the keeping of the Sunday to be a punishment, but a benefit to us. Therefore, after hearing Mass we may take such recreation as is useful or necessary for us; but we should avoid any vulgar, noisy or disgraceful amusements that turn the day of rest and prayer into a day of scandal and sin.

1248. Q. Are the Sabbath day and the Sunday the same?

A. The Sabbath day and the Sunday are not the same. The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, and is the day which was kept holy in the Old Law; the Sunday is the first day of the week, and is the day that is kept holy in the New Law.

1249. Q. What is meant by the Old Law and New Law?

A. The Old Law means the law or religion given the Jews; the New Law means the law or religion given to Christians.

1250. Q. Why does the Church command us to keep the Sunday holy instead of the Sabbath?

A. The Church commands us to keep the Sunday holy instead of the Sabbath because on Sunday Christ rose from the dead, and on Sunday He sent the Holy Ghost upon the apostles.

1251. Q. Do we keep Sunday instead of Saturday for any other reason?

A. We keep Sunday instead of Saturday holy also to teach that the Old Law is not now binding upon us, but that we must keep the New Law, which takes its place.

1252. Q. What is forbidden by the third commandment?

A. The third commandment forbids all unnecessary servile work and whatever else may hinder the due observane of the Lord's day.

1253. Q. What are servile works?

A. Servile works derive their name from the fact that such works were formerly done by slaves. Therefore, reading, writing, studying and in general, all works that slaves did not perform are not.

1255. Q. Are servile works on Sunday ever lawful?

A. Servile works are lawful on Sundays when the honor of God, the good of our neighbor, or necessity may requires them.

1256. Q. Give some examples when the honor of God, the good of our neighbor, or necessity may require servile works on Sunday.

A. The honor of God, the good of our neighbor, or necessity may require servile works on Sunday, in such cases as the preparation of a place for Holy Mass, the saving of property in storms and accidents, the cooking of meals and similar works."

2/11/2018 3:28:43 PMkijiji nantes rencontres The 4th. commandment 

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I do look at this from a different angle.

in the days when Jews were known as Hebrews, they could easily leave their cattle grazing in the pastures. but I wonder if someone still went out on the Sabbath to ensure the cattle were safe?

today, as I myself live on a farm with animals who are not on a pasture, but are in sections within the farm. we bale hay because the grass goes dormant in the winter time. and yesterday and today we have snow on the ground. so they cannot graze naturally. I must go out and toss bales of hay to them and check on their water tanks [ensuring the water heaters are in the water so the water does not freeze].

to some on this forum, I should let my animals go hungry and without on the Sabbath. but, I am willing to bet even the Hebrews checked on their livestock during the Sabbath to ensure their safety and to know where they were.

just my opinion on this

2/11/2018 4:26:01 PMbel ami rencontre avec forestier The 4th. commandment 
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Quote from rtay:
The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Ephesians 2.



For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, (Ephesians 2:14–15)

Christ forever broke down (the Greek aorist tense signifies completed action) every dividing wall by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. When Jesus died on the cross He abolished every barrier between man and God and between man and his fellow man. The greatest barrier between Jew and Gentile was the ceremonial law, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. The feasts, sacrifices, offerings, laws of cleanliness and purification, and all other such distinctive outward commandments for the unique separation of Israel from the nations were abolished.

That God’s moral law was not abolished is clear from the phrase contained in ceremonies. His moral law reflects His own holy nature and therefore can never change (cf. Matt. 5:17–19). That is the law which for the Jews was summarized in the Ten Commandments and which for all men is written on their hearts (Rom. 2:15) and still commanded of them (Matt. 22:37–40; Rom. 13:8–10). Jesus summarized God’s moral law still further by declaring, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you” (John 13:34). The Ten Commandments, like all of God’s moral laws, are but the structured and particularized love that God still requires (James 2:8).

All the ceremonial laws which distinguished and separated Jews from Gentiles were obliterated. Before Christ those groups could not eat together because of restricted foods, required washings, and ceremonial contamination. Now they could eat anything with anyone. Before Christ they could not worship together. A Gentile could not fully worship in the Jewish Temple, and a Jew would not worship in a pagan temple. In Christ they now worshiped together and needed no temple or other sacred place to sanctify it. All ceremonial distinctions and requirements were removed (cf. Acts 10:9–16; 11:17–18; Col. 2:16–17), that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace. The emphasis is again on in Himself, affirming that this new unity can occur only when men are united in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17)

Of primary concern to every faithful Jew seeking to evaluate Jesus was, “What does He think of the law; what does He think of Moses and the prophets?” The leaders often confronted Jesus on matters of the law. Many Jews believed that the Messiah would radically revise or completely overturn the Mosaic law and establish His own new standards. They interpreted Jeremiah 31:31 as teaching that God’s new promised covenant would annul the old covenant and start over on a completely new moral basis. Sickened of the demanding, hypocritical legalism of the Pharisees, many people hoped the Messiah would bring in a new day of freedom from the burdensome, mechanical, and meaningless demands of the traditional system.

The Law and the Prophets represent what we now call the Old Testament, the only written Scripture at the time Jesus preached (see Matt. 7:12; 11:13; 22:40; Luke 16:16; John 1:45; Acts 13:15; 28:23). It is therefore about the Old Testament that Jesus speaks in Matthew 5:17–20. Everything He taught directly in His own ministry, as well as everything He taught through the apostles, is based on the Old Testament. It is therefore impossible to understand or accept the New Testament apart from the Old.

Jesus’ warning, do not think, indicates that most, if not all, of His hearers had a wrong conception about His teaching. Most traditionalistic Jews considered the rabbinic instructions to be the proper interpretations of the law of Moses, and they concluded that, because Jesus did not scrupulously follow those traditions, He obviously was doing away with the law or relegating it to minor importance. Because Jesus swept away the traditions of washings, special tithes, extreme Sabbath observance, and such things, the people thought He was thereby overthrowing God’s law. From the outset, therefore, Jesus wanted to disabuse His hearers of any misconceptions about His view of Scripture.

Kataluo (abolish) means to utterly overthrow or destroy, and is the same word used of the destruction of the Temple (Matt. 24:2; 26:61; etc.) and of the death of the physical body (2 Cor. 5:1). The basic idea is to tear down and smash to the ground, to obliterate completely. In several places, as here, the word is used figuratively to indicate bringing to naught, rendering useless, or nullifying (see Acts 5:38–39; Rom. 14:20). Doing that to God’s law is the antithesis of the work and teaching of Jesus.

rt


Well I do not fear, telling people John McCarther is just wrong on this subject. I don't follow men anymore. Been there done that.

Clearly, if Jesus abolished the feasts, that contradict's, Jesus own works,Where they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Jesus knew his disciples would be keeping the feast of PENTECOST at the appointed times.

There's more.

2/11/2018 4:27:42 PMsite de rencontre ado non payant The 4th. commandment 
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Quote from Equalizer21:
Well I do not fear, telling people John McCarther is just wrong on this subject. I don't follow men anymore. Been there done that.

Clearly, if Jesus abolished the feasts, that contradict's, Jesus own works,Where they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Jesus knew his disciples would be keeping the feast of PENTECOST at the appointed times.

There's more.



Acts Chapter 2

Luke 24:49

2/11/2018 4:35:29 PMprostituée perou The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from iam_resurrected:
I do look at this from a different angle.

in the days when Jews were known as Hebrews, they could easily leave their cattle grazing in the pastures. but I wonder if someone still went out on the Sabbath to ensure the cattle were safe?

today, as I myself live on a farm with animals who are not on a pasture, but are in sections within the farm. we bale hay because the grass goes dormant in the winter time. and yesterday and today we have snow on the ground. so they cannot graze naturally. I must go out and toss bales of hay to them and check on their water tanks [ensuring the water heaters are in the water so the water does not freeze].

to some on this forum, I should let my animals go hungry and without on the Sabbath. but, I am willing to bet even the Hebrews checked on their livestock during the Sabbath to ensure their safety and to know where they were.

just my opinion on this


thanks for your post,you might be right. working a farm is noble work and farming seems to be a seed that starts a new town to grow. Blessing,rt

2/11/2018 7:20:35 PMsite de rencontre en The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from iam_resurrected:
I do look at this from a different angle.

in the days when Jews were known as Hebrews, they could easily leave their cattle grazing in the pastures. but I wonder if someone still went out on the Sabbath to ensure the cattle were safe?

today, as I myself live on a farm with animals who are not on a pasture, but are in sections within the farm. we bale hay because the grass goes dormant in the winter time. and yesterday and today we have snow on the ground. so they cannot graze naturally. I must go out and toss bales of hay to them and check on their water tanks [ensuring the water heaters are in the water so the water does not freeze].

to some on this forum, I should let my animals go hungry and without on the Sabbath. but, I am willing to bet even the Hebrews checked on their livestock during the Sabbath to ensure their safety and to know where they were.

just my opinion on this




I really miss the farm and especially calving season.

Too tired to night to do any thing but browse posts, I dove in snow storms, rain , freezing rain and ice pellets in the last 24 hours, lol, saw it all.

Its rather strange, of all the many memories I have of my Dad and Brother? The ones that most often come to mind was of nasty weather, middle of the night difficult calving sessions . And they make me smile as I remember them .

I liked that post , and you are right. Jesus is the good Sheppard, he would always want us to feed our herd and flock. no matter the time, day or weather !



======================================================================

Hebrews chapter 10, is what comes to my mind, when contemplating this. :

Hebrews 10 Amplified Bible (AMP)
One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient
10 For since the Law has only a shadow [just a pale representation] of the good things to come—not the very image of those things—it can never, by offering the same sacrifices continually year after year, make [a]perfect those who approach [its altars]. 2 For if it were otherwise, would not these sacrifices have stopped being offered? For the worshipers, having once [for all time] been cleansed, would no longer have a consciousness of sin. 3 But [as it is] these [continual] sacrifices bring a fresh reminder of sins [to be atoned for] year after year, 4 for it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when Christ enters into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But [instead] You have prepared a body for Me [to offer];
6

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no delight.
7

“Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
To do Your will, O God—
[To fulfill] what is written of Me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 After saying [in the citation] above, “You have neither desired, nor have You taken delight in sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin” (which are offered according to the Law) 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” [And so] He does away with the first [covenant as a means of atoning for sin based on animal sacrifices] so that He may inaugurate and establish the second [covenant by means of obedience]. 10 And in accordance with this will [of God] we [who believe in the message of salvation] have been sanctified [that is, set apart as holy for God and His purposes] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) once for all.
11 Every priest stands [at his altar of service] ministering daily, offering the same sacrifices over and over, which are never able pour une rencontre soignante alain froment to strip away sins [that envelop and cover us]; 12 whereas Christ, having offered the one sacrifice [the all-sufficient sacrifice of Himself] for sins for all time, sat down [signifying the completion of atonement for sin] at the right hand of God [the position of honor], 13 waiting from that time onward until his enemies are made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by the one offering He has perfected forever and completely cleansed those who are being sanctified [bringing each believer to spiritual completion and maturity]. 15 And the Holy Spirit also adds His testimony to us [in confirmation of this]; for after having said,
16

“This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, says the Lord:
I will imprint My laws upon their heart,
And on their mind I will inscribe them [producing an inward change],”
He then says,
17

“And their sins and their lawless acts
I will remember no more [no longer holding their sins against them].”
18 Now where there is [absolute] forgiveness and complete cancellation of the penalty of these things, there is no longer any offering [to be made to atone] for sin.

2/11/2018 8:11:25 PMrencontre avec philippe djian The 4th. commandment 

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Rtay you made some very good points in your post. Several points you made I agree with. I am impressed on your bible knowledge.
You and Doc are well versed.
However, I think there are some things I would like to point out.

rencontres love easyrencontre page CREATION WEEK
Creation Week also dealt with Form and Fill.
ort rencontre du travail 1st Day created light and separated light and darkness - aishwarya rai et abhishek bachchan rencontre 4th Day filled with Sun, Moon and Stars.
rencontres sig la lettre 2nd Day Air and Water and separated them - dépendance aux sites de rencontres 5th Day filled with birds and fish.
site de rencontre you for me.be 3rd Day Land, plants and trees - femme herblay 6th Day filled with animals and made Man.

rencontres du hauvel 7th day God Rested. What did God fill in for that day?
He filled that day with prostituee frontiere espagne Himself In and of itself it was Completion with Him.

This is key.

I like what Dr. Henry Morris said, le fruit de la rencontre
"The Lord Himself had worked 6 days, then rested on the seventh, setting thereby a permanent pattern for the benefit of mankind." Biblical Creationism p 62




meet boulogne sur mer GOD'S REST

Gen 2:2
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and site de rencontre femme moscou he rested [shabath] on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it prix prostituées nantes he had rested [shabath] from all his work which God created and made.

Ex 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rencontre territoriales antilles guyane rested [nuwach the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Ex 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he eden rencontres visio fun rested [Shabath], and was rencontres musicales de savoie 2013 refreshed [naphash].

So when we look at how God "Rested" we have Shabath, Nuwach, and Naphash.

Rtay as you pointed out God was Satisfied with His work and took time enjoy His own Creation.

2/11/2018 8:17:11 PMrencontres if insa lyon The 4th. commandment 

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rencontre femme alaska SABBATH
Rtay
Now, you do not hear in those three verses anything about people resting. There’s nothing here about man resting, nothing here about Adam resting,...There’s no sabbath law given here for Adam, none at all. Nothing is said about this day being a day of worship.


Rtay you are right up to certain point.

Adam and Eve were not told to keep the Sabbath the first week of Creation.
The reason why was it was at the end of the seventh day that it became Holy.
Remember I pointed out under Creation Week that the 7th day was filled with God.
It was His Presence that made it Holy and when that day ended, the 7th day became a Holy time.

Let's look at God's Rest again.

Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and rencontre ablis sanctified it: because that in it site de rencontre royaume unis he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and site de rencontre pour rmiste rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and club de rencontre granby hallowed it.

soiree rencontre manoir bailleul So Who was the fist to keep the Sabbath?
It was God. He Rested from all of His Work.


God set the example for man.
Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day therefore they did not see any of God's Creative Work.
But on the next day of Creation Week, the 7th day, God kept the Sabbath Himself with Adam and Eve, showing them the example of Rest: Shabath, Nuwach, and Naphash.

It was only after God Rested on the 7th day that He could Sanctify and Hallowed it.

That is why God rencontres partenariales did not tell Adam and Eve they were to keep the 7th day Holy on Creation Week, how could they, when the 4th Commandment says, paruvendu 38 rencontres Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: forum de rencontre motard But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God.

And what was Adam and Eve's work? To subdue the earth, have dominion over it, tend to the Garden. It was pleasant work, not the work we know today as curse because of sin..

At the start of the next week, after Creation Week, Adam and Eve were to work six days and keep the 7th day Holy as an eternal pattern as demonstrated by God Himself.


God kept it Himself and set the example and after that it was the pattern that Adam and Eve and all of humanity were to follow even before sin entered the world.

Thus 7th Day Sabbath was institutionalized at Creation.

The 7th Day Sabbath is God's Sabbath.
Why?
Because God Sanctified it and Hollowed it, an God Himself Rested on the 7th Day.

2/11/2018 10:20:04 PMrencontre femme de grande taille The 4th. commandment 
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So the sabbath, every sabbath that went by when they rested, they were reminded of a perfect creation, a paradise of God dominated by righteousness, which had been forfeited by sin and could only be regained again by righteousness. God then institutes the seventh-day system, not for everybody in the world. In fact, specifically it says for Israel. Verse 17, “A sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever.” Every seventh day was a reminder that they were living in a fallen world. Every seventh day was a reminder that they had lost paradise. And the only way to regain a taste of paradise was obedience to God, righteousness.


Ok wanted to address some things said in here. Hopefully the Holy Spirit and study, will lead us into Truth.

Why is it limited to Israel/Jews only that we are living in a Fallen world?

Now that we are grafted into the Promises and covenants given to Israel, we should have this blessing to bring to rememberance. To cherish and celebrate also.

It is a mistake under a new Testament to say we are a separate body, Jews and Gentiles. That's ERROR. Gentiles have now been made partakers with Israel
(grafted in).

The Church is leaving it's roots.


Now specifically to the Sabbath issue. Paul said in another place.

Heb 4


There's a lot there, and it seems to get Jumbled up. So go read Heb 4

Verse 7 now he's speaking to David, but ALSO prophetically.

There is still a rest. to come.

Verse 8

If it was limited to Joshua only, why does he speak it to David too, Also the prophetic future event.

Verse 11

Let us be DILLIGENT (labor) to enter that rest. (Future event). lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience


To me this Speaks of Entering into Heaven, with our Spiritual Bodies. The final rest.

So Sabbath is a perfect time to reflect on all this. Till we receive our inheritance.

Not only that it has physical and mental health blessings.

2/11/2018 11:01:29 PMrencontre femme evere The 4th. commandment 
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Quote from iam_resurrected:
I do look at this from a different angle.

in the days when Jews were known as Hebrews, they could easily leave their cattle grazing in the pastures. but I wonder if someone still went out on the Sabbath to ensure the cattle were safe?

today, as I myself live on a farm with animals who are not on a pasture, but are in sections within the farm. we bale hay because the grass goes dormant in the winter time. and yesterday and today we have snow on the ground. so they cannot graze naturally. I must go out and toss bales of hay to them and check on their water tanks [ensuring the water heaters are in the water so the water does not freeze].

to some on this forum, I should let my animals go hungry and without on the Sabbath. but, I am willing to bet even the Hebrews checked on their livestock during the Sabbath to ensure their safety and to know where they were.

just my opinion on this


I grew up on a farm. Raised livestock in producton level environment's. Open fields with fencing, and enclosed pens.

Now I didn't do that as a Sabbath keeper, or a Christian. So, I'm not trying to tell you what to do.

I suppose though. Donkeys can be stubborn and by golly, it smelled that water in the well on that hot thirsty Sabbath day. Then it got stuck?

I know animals can get cranky like humans if they miss their appointed meals. Yet they won't die in one day from starvation. I've had plenty of water tanks freeze over, they learn to eat snow, or chew the cud, for those that can.

God told Israel to gather enough Manna for two days on the day before Sabbath. So they didn't have to starve.

I know animals can be trained. I wonder if you started giving them two flakes of hay, before sabbath, and if they are able to figure out the feeding cycle, and realize it and not to gorge on the extra, because they won't see you tomorrow, and Go hungry?

Anyways, lots to consider there. Not everyone has the same pressures preparing for sabbath.

I know God pronounced Judgement against Israel, for not following Sabbath Laws on land.

Why is it so important to rest the ground?

Do Animals need Sabbath?

I guess frozen water tanks are an emergency.

Spirit of Law vs letter.

2/12/2018 12:02:22 AMle meilleur sit de rencontre gratuit The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from rtay:
thanks for your post,you might be right. working a farm is noble work and farming seems to be a seed that starts a new town to grow. Blessing,rt













2/12/2018 12:03:13 AMrencontre evalentin The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from isna_la_wica:


I really miss the farm and especially calving season.

Too tired to night to do any thing but browse posts, I dove in snow storms, rain , freezing rain and ice pellets in the last 24 hours, lol, saw it all.

Its rather strange, of all the many memories I have of my Dad and Brother? The ones that most often come to mind was of nasty weather, middle of the night difficult calving sessions . And they make me smile as I remember them .

I liked that post , and you are right. Jesus is the good Sheppard, he would always want us to feed our herd and flock. no matter the time, day or weather !



======================================================================

Hebrews chapter 10, is what comes to my mind, when contemplating this. :

Hebrews 10 Amplified Bible (AMP)
One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient
10 For since the Law has only a shadow [just a pale representation] of the good things to come—not the very image of those things—it can never, by offering the same sacrifices continually year after year, make [a]perfect those who approach [its altars]. 2 For if it were otherwise, would not these sacrifices have stopped being offered? For the worshipers, having once [for all time] been cleansed, would no longer have a consciousness of sin. 3 But [as it is] these [continual] sacrifices bring a fresh reminder of sins [to be atoned for] year after year, 4 for it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when Christ enters into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But [instead] You have prepared a body for Me [to offer];
6

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no delight.
7

“Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
To do Your will, O God—
[To fulfill] what is written of Me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 After saying [in the citation] above, “You have neither desired, nor have You taken delight in sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin” (which are offered according to the Law) 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” [And so] He does away with the first [covenant as a means of atoning for sin based on animal sacrifices] so that He may inaugurate and establish the second [covenant by means of obedience]. 10 And in accordance with this will [of God] we [who believe in the message of salvation] have been sanctified [that is, set apart as holy for God and His purposes] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) once for all.
11 Every priest stands [at his altar of service] ministering daily, offering the same sacrifices over and over, which are never able omg site de rencontre to strip away sins [that envelop and cover us]; 12 whereas Christ, having offered the one sacrifice [the all-sufficient sacrifice of Himself] for sins for all time, sat down [signifying the completion of atonement for sin] at the right hand of God [the position of honor], 13 waiting from that time onward until his enemies are made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by the one offering He has perfected forever and completely cleansed those who are being sanctified [bringing each believer to spiritual completion and maturity]. 15 And the Holy Spirit also adds His testimony to us [in confirmation of this]; for after having said,
16

“This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, says the Lord:
I will imprint My laws upon their heart,
And on their mind I will inscribe them [producing an inward change],”
He then says,
17

“And their sins and their lawless acts
I will remember no more [no longer holding their sins against them].”
18 Now where there is [absolute] forgiveness and complete cancellation of the penalty of these things, there is no longer any offering [to be made to atone] for sin.









2/12/2018 12:22:05 AMespace rencontre rennes The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from Equalizer21:
I grew up on a farm. Raised livestock in producton level environment's. Open fields with fencing, and enclosed pens.

Now I didn't do that as a Sabbath keeper, or a Christian. So, I'm not trying to tell you what to do.

I suppose though. Donkeys can be stubborn and by golly, it smelled that water in the well on that hot thirsty Sabbath day. Then it got stuck?

I know animals can get cranky like humans if they miss their appointed meals. Yet they won't die in one day from starvation. I've had plenty of water tanks freeze over, they learn to eat snow, or chew the cud, for those that can.

God told Israel to gather enough Manna for two days on the day before Sabbath. So they didn't have to starve.

I know animals can be trained. I wonder if you started giving them two flakes of hay, before sabbath, and if they are able to figure out the feeding cycle, and realize it and not to gorge on the extra, because they won't see you tomorrow, and Go hungry?

Anyways, lots to consider there. Not everyone has the same pressures preparing for sabbath.

I know God pronounced Judgement against Israel, for not following Sabbath Laws on land.

Why is it so important to rest the ground?

Do Animals need Sabbath?

I guess frozen water tanks are an emergency.

Spirit of Law vs letter.








I will put it like this...

my dogs are Tibetan mastiffs, which range from 130 lbs females to males 175 - 200lbs. on a vets dog chart, the Tibetan mastiff is listed as 95% wolf and rencontre tulear madagascar only 5% domesticated. when they miss a meal, they will attack one another and so far the cheapest vet bill is around $2500. so not feeding them is centre de rencontre la grange villars sur glane NEVER AN OPTION. but I need these dogs because we have mountain lions. and these dogs were specifically bred in Tibet to protect infant children from tigers during sleeping hours at night [these dogs are most active at night].

now, the cows...when the cows don't eat, they have no issue shocking themselves on live fencing to tear my fencing down in order to get to the hay stacks. they are as dumb as a pencil. so, the option to not feed them is nada.

the chickens, ducks and turkeys all have feeders...but...the act of drinking water is what specifically allows them to keep heat inside their bodies. so the option to allow their water to freeze so they might freeze is nada.

the llamas are the most resilient and can last every other day. because, what they don't eat, they bed on and can eat the following day. but although they are camelids [related to camels], it is pertinent for them to have access to thawed water when they do need to drink.

and that leaves me last to the horses...and NO, what I give them they will eat and not spare for tomorrow. they are harsh terrain horses being Icelandic, but when temps dip to severe cold weather, they need energy to survive like humans would.

therefore, in my opinion, it is not wise for my animals to miss a day of feeding unless I really just want to waste money. and I honestly believe, that wasting money when you know better is a sin unto God because He gave me the money to begin with!!

2/12/2018 4:32:45 AMrencontre badoo paris The 4th. commandment 

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a_nubian, Thanks for your comments.

In regard to "I am impressed on your bible knowledge"
As I mentioned to Rich,I just bring information to the table,the chef prepares the meal.
John has been my teacher for 25 years.

My dad always changed jobs,I never stayed in one school for more than 2 years.In Arizona I went to school for 5 days and moved again.When I was in high school my dad came and took me to get my driver's licence,the next day he left.I didn't see him again until I got out the service.Here I am at 17 walking the streets trying to find a place to live for my mom.She never work before,and neither have I.I went in the service and sent her my money.I guess to make this short my understanding of language structure is very limited.
I can get so excited over a comma,I would put them anywhere.So most of my information are from transcripts. Doc has always impressed me with his knowledge,Including yourself.I Love the way Rich has grown in the Word and has provided some wonderful information.

I will give your posts more thought,Thanks.rt

2/12/2018 9:13:35 AMcréer un site de rencontre en ligne gratuit The 4th. commandment 
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Quote from iam_resurrected:
I will put it like this...

my dogs are Tibetan mastiffs, which range from 130 lbs females to males 175 - 200lbs. on a vets dog chart, the Tibetan mastiff is listed as 95% wolf and ou faire des rencontres amicales only 5% domesticated. when they miss a meal, they will attack one another and so far the cheapest vet bill is around $2500. so not feeding them is sites de rencontres gratuits pour séniors NEVER AN OPTION. but I need these dogs because we have mountain lions. and these dogs were specifically bred in Tibet to protect infant children from tigers during sleeping hours at night [these dogs are most active at night].

now, the cows...when the cows don't eat, they have no issue shocking themselves on live fencing to tear my fencing down in order to get to the hay stacks. they are as dumb as a pencil. so, the option to not feed them is nada.

the chickens, ducks and turkeys all have feeders...but...the act of drinking water is what specifically allows them to keep heat inside their bodies. so the option to allow their water to freeze so they might freeze is nada.

the llamas are the most resilient and can last every other day. because, what they don't eat, they bed on and can eat the following day. but although they are camelids [related to camels], it is pertinent for them to have access to thawed water when they do need to drink.

and that leaves me last to the horses...and NO, what I give them they will eat and not spare for tomorrow. they are harsh terrain horses being Icelandic, but when temps dip to severe cold weather, they need energy to survive like humans would.

therefore, in my opinion, it is not wise for my animals to miss a day of feeding unless I really just want to waste money. and I honestly believe, that wasting money when you know better is a sin unto God because He gave me the money to begin with!!


You make a great point, God doesn't make us fast on Sabbath. So why should we make Animals, without large IQ's fast?

Necessity of life, VS Customary work.

Prayer and Trusting God VS Taking matters in our own hands.


The Disciples, when plucking Grain on Sabbath, probably picked from corners. Which was allowed and commanded. Otherwise they might of charged them with theft?

Dad was better at it, but trained me in gesstation cycles for Animals, so he could calender out days and weeks for Birthing, in the breeding process. I guess if you have pet animals or a hobby farm. That's different than than a customary work situation in Animal production for a living.

We had a dedicated well for the cattle, so we could just flip a switch, and the water would pump. Of course when it was freezing or snowing and blowing, we could just let the ice buildup for a couple days, but the water would still run, then after the storm or freeze, go breakup the ice. The waters at Meribah, where Moses struck the rock, I wonder if they filled animal skins with water, or did they have to visit the rock everyday and get water? I am sure they had ingenious ways of taking care of animals and necessity of life for them, on Sabbath. Without it being a customary work.

I know feedlots, have heated water tanks.

Another aspect is,

2 Timothy 2:4
No one engaged in warfare silence radio rencontre internet entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier

Mark 4

19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

God was training Israel to be a lean mean fighting machine, and go take the land on the other side of the Jordan, from the giants, and then they get rest. Some decided they would rest now, and stay on this side of the Jordan, God says, ok you can possess the lands outside the promised lands,that's cool ,yet I'm still going to make you crossover, and fight with your brethren.


Of course the BUZZWORD lately is SYMBOLS, SYMBOLIC,SYMBOLIZES. ....How is this SYMBOLIC for today?

Well we have GIANTS to slay too, we can't even see them. You know, Principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, spiritual wickedness. The Church, and it's people are to be lean mean fighting machines. However many are happy, with the land, on the side of the Jordan, that wasn't the promised lands.

So again, Necessity of life. VS Customary work. What is God saying to you? What's work and what's necessary?

2/12/2018 9:38:35 AMconseils pour rencontre internet The 4th. commandment 
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So I've heard this thoughtline before about, there really is no moral imperative, about the Sabbath. Why do we have to keep it? I'm sure Israel had thoughts like that. Nothing New under the Sun. I've heard this before about making the 10 commands, 9 comnands and the other is just an OPTION, since there really is no moral imperative.

To some its, oh that's the Law. So immediately they bristle at the thought of Sabbath Laws. Pastor warned them. Nowadays, SYMBOLIC is a word that's used. Yet it's used to diminish the Sabbath. Not actually something that would be benificiarilly, Symbolic for today.

Yet how can ir be Symbolic for today?

Well God rested. He probably understands the perils of overworking, workaholic and also the toll it takes on Spirit, Soul and Body. So we need to renew and refresh it quite frequently.

Not just the fact that it's a command. Yet it could be sin also against your body.????

So taking a timeout, weekly, to keep your priorities, refresh , Enjoy, God recognizes this and people (like dumb sheep sometimes) just need a Sheppard to give a command. So blind obedience is ok sometimes, but I suggest you grow up in it as you go along.

That scripture comes to mind, Perfecting Holiness (Sabbath).

I'm sure it was a burden back in the day of Israel for some. You can see it today in others. Grumbling and complaining hearts.

However, we are GRAFTED IN BRANCHES. To the covenants of Promise.

2 Peter 1:4
by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

Now we are citizens with Israel. Here's a promise for Sabbath.

Isaiah 58:13
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words


Soooooo maybe you can't find a moral Imperative or SYMBOL to honor the Sabbath. However we have great promises for keeping the Sabbath.

And comnands.

What more do you need? A law? Why not just go by Faith and Promise?


Ephesians 2:12
that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world

I delight in the Sabbath, 24 hours. Sundown to sundown.


2/12/2018 10:39:00 AMdescription site de rencontres The 4th. commandment 
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Quote from iam_resurrected:
I do look at this from a different angle.

in the days when Jews were known as Hebrews, they could easily leave their cattle grazing in the pastures. but I wonder if someone still went out on the Sabbath to ensure the cattle were safe?

today, as I myself live on a farm with animals who are not on a pasture, but are in sections within the farm. we bale hay because the grass goes dormant in the winter time. and yesterday and today we have snow on the ground. so they cannot graze naturally. I must go out and toss bales of hay to them and check on their water tanks [ensuring the water heaters are in the water so the water does not freeze].

to some on this forum, I should let my animals go hungry and without on the Sabbath. but, I am willing to bet even the Hebrews checked on their livestock during the Sabbath to ensure their safety and to know where they were.

just my opinion on this


I think your opinion lines up with Luke 14:5
And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an a** or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

And Mark 2:23-27
...The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

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And Mark 2:23-27
...The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:


God made Sabbath for man. He made it a command too. Most people don't care God made Sabbath for men.

God also gave man parameters to live by on the Sabbath, So that man wouldn't make up his own rules and think this pleases God. So although it's for men. They still have to follow God's lead on it.

Also there are promises, associated with Sabbath.

Isaiah 58:13
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on
My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight

Notice it's God's Holy Day. God didn't make man for the Sabbath. Man can choose to walk by faith and obedience in keeping God's Holy day. Or he can profane it.


Of course God is a Jealous God too.

Deuteronomy 4:24
For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God

So when you say, man wasn't made for Sabbath, what does that mean to you? Do you have a scriptural reference?

2/13/2018 7:04:40 AMla mauvaise rencontre roman philippe grimbert The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from iam_resurrected:
I will put it like this...

my dogs are Tibetan mastiffs, which range from 130 lbs females to males 175 - 200lbs. on a vets dog chart, the Tibetan mastiff is listed as 95% wolf and rencontre fugace only 5% domesticated. when they miss a meal, they will attack one another and so far the cheapest vet bill is around $2500. so not feeding them is paroles grand corps malade rencontre NEVER AN OPTION. but I need these dogs because we have mountain lions. and these dogs were specifically bred in Tibet to protect infant children from tigers during sleeping hours at night [these dogs are most active at night].

now, the cows...when the cows don't eat, they have no issue shocking themselves on live fencing to tear my fencing down in order to get to the hay stacks. they are as dumb as a pencil. so, the option to not feed them is nada.

the chickens, ducks and turkeys all have feeders...but...the act of drinking water is what specifically allows them to keep heat inside their bodies. so the option to allow their water to freeze so they might freeze is nada.

the llamas are the most resilient and can last every other day. because, what they don't eat, they bed on and can eat the following day. but although they are camelids [related to camels], it is pertinent for them to have access to thawed water when they do need to drink.

and that leaves me last to the horses...and NO, what I give them they will eat and not spare for tomorrow. they are harsh terrain horses being Icelandic, but when temps dip to severe cold weather, they need energy to survive like humans would.

therefore, in my opinion, it is not wise for my animals to miss a day of feeding unless I really just want to waste money. and I honestly believe, that wasting money when you know better is a sin unto God because He gave me the money to begin with!!


You are 100 % correct.

There are so many variables involved in the healthy feeding of Live stock. Weather, temp, age of the animal, what kind of feed, it all come into play.

And there is a balance that must be obtained , between the various types of feed, that must be maintained, along with water intake and vitamins required. For example, a mature Cow in winter requires from 10 to 15 gallons of water a day. No, you can not skip that or feed for a day, with out interfering with their mild production, lactation etc. And shut shutting them down for 1 out of every 7 days? Does effect their health, Calving performance etc.

Feeding is even affected by the temperature. Some thing we in the north have to follow closely. For every - 5degrees Celsius that the temp is below - 20 degrees C, they require an 1 lb of grain , but even that depends on the quality of the grass/ straw or hay they are fed. And if the temp drops below -35 degrees, that grain ration, increases to 3 extra lbs.

Sabbath keeping Cows, is rather silly, in every way. So if any body insists that they must keep the Sabbath, and cannot feed their animals? Do not become farmers and then blame Gods laws for making them suffer. Then again, they should not be on here on their chosen day anyway, they are using electricity and making Power Engineers work !

God placed you in charge of the animals, its a responsibility that should never be taken lightly. And the same goes for Police, health care workers, many essential occupations.

I would worry more about braking that responsibility on judgement day, than breaking rules for Jews.

God approves of what you do. So you are right to keep on caring for them, 7/24/ 365.

2/13/2018 7:54:22 AMcomparatif site rencontre 2010 The 4th. commandment 

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I lived in rural Nebraska and I knew Seventh Day Adventist farmers and ranchers.

They feed their livestock ever Sabbath.

One SDA church I visited many years ago, had church service at 8am so they could get out in timely manner to feed their cattle.

2/13/2018 11:01:35 AMrencontre avec glen keane The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from a_nubian:
I lived in rural Nebraska and I knew Seventh Day Adventist farmers and ranchers.

They feed their livestock ever Sabbath.

One SDA church I visited many years ago, had church service at 8am so they could get out in timely manner to feed their cattle.




Of course, any good farmer and Christian would feed their live stock.

Proverbs 12:10 Amplified Bible (AMP)
10

A righteous man has kind regard for the life of his animal,
But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.

Exodus 23:4 Amplified Bible (AMP)
4 “If you meet your enemy’s ox or his donkey wandering off, you must bring it back to him.

And in direct relation to the Sabbath, one of the reasons was so that the work animals could rest:

Exodus 23:12 Amplified Bible (AMP)
12 “Six days [each week] you shall do your work, but on the seventh day you shall stop [working] so that your ox and your donkey may settle down and rest, and the son of your female servant, as well as your stranger, may be refreshed.


That goes against saying that animals should not be fed , so we can rest.

I have known Sabbath keepers as well , living in a Mennonite area. And yes, they feed their live stock on their Sabbath.

My previous post was in regards to the ones who think they should not fed on the Sabbath, or that letting them "fast " for a day, is no problem.

2/13/2018 11:15:51 AMtableau rencontre foot 2010 The 4th. commandment 
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The SDA, also exempt Doctors from working on Sabbath.

How's come God didn't give special instructions, exemptions to doctors in the Old Testament , like he did priests?

So where does it end, 6 days a man shall work,Customary work, and 7th you shall do no customary work. Yet we have established, necessity of Life is not customary.

Certainly God knows and Tests hearts.

Some operations have mechanical timers to feed. Or robotic operations. Yet again they are commercial operations. If your animal is in a pasture, it will not starve, especially in one day.

What about the Military and Govt? Are they exempt from Sabbath too?




1 Corinthians 7:33
But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife


James 4:4 friends of WORLDLINESS, are enemies of God.

What's missing here?

God INSTITUTED a Sabbath. Yet everyone's exempt?

Sure you gotta feed the wife and kids, and yourself and the animals on Sabbath.

Is God saying we should be like PETA and not pen up the animals, for commercial operators?

The Bundy family in Az, is fighting the feds, because in AZ animals are allowed to graze on fed land and the feds are fencing and not allowing.

Can God bless our bread and water?

Can God feed thousands with a few fishes and loaves, but he can't make feed last on commercial operations or special needs animals?

Why did God call Israel out into the Desert and Seperate them from the world?


2 Corinthians 6:17
Therefore “Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.

Can God really be a Father and provide?

Matthew 6:32
For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you

Ok so maybe God's not calling his people to be commercial Animal producers?


Exodus 9:4
And the Lord will make a difference between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt. So nothing shall die of all that belongs to the children of Israel

Exodus 9:6
So the Lord did this thing on the next day, and all the livestock of Egypt died; but of the livestock of the children of Israel, not one died

Does God rule the Spirit of livestock?

2/13/2018 12:08:11 PMles sites de rencontre ivoirien The 4th. commandment 
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As a commercial breeder, there's all kinds of things you can do to keep you animals healthy, happy, and productive. They even do this for Women today in conception. Of course all that feeds into the bottom line.

MONEY.....production. cost.


We are talking about Sabbath and work. In feeding your animals, does it count as customary work, or, necessity of life?

I don't know, but if you are also doing calculations for maximum breeding purposes to serve your bottom line.(wealth) Isn't that customary work......?


Shouldn't we be finding ways on Sabbath to Love God, and keep his commands and rather be trying to find ways to get outta work? I would think we should excel and be excellent kanivers, at finding ways to do less work, no work, than finding loopholes, to work on the Sabbath.

Ya think?


Some thoughts that come to mind about feeding Animals.

One was Jacob, who got the spotted, speckled and brown goats from the scoundrel Laban. Found in Gen 30.39 So the flocks conceived before the rods, and the flocks brought forth streaked, speckled, and spotted

I wonder, was the AROMA as well as the VISUAL, in the rods that helped them conceive? Also conceive a specific type of Animal? They do that stuff today. Yet God still had a hand in blessing and cursing, so to speak the work. So we need to be Rom 16:19

Wise for good, Simple about Evil.

Can God bless our bread and water? Can we trust God?

Deuteronomy chapter 8

Fits so well here, I recommend you read it.

Here's an excerpt.

18 “And you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day


There is power with God.

The World has power too. In selves and Devil.


Who you going to Trust?
Who are you going to Serve?
Who you going to submit too?


4 Your garments did not wear out on you, nor did your foot swell these forty years.

Wow no wonder they didn't need Podiatrists. GOD kept them healthy.

2 And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. 3 So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger,


Wow, God allowed the kiddies to hunger......
Hmmmmmmmm

Some people would accuse God of being a meanie.

2/13/2018 1:54:05 PMsite de rencontre pour nolife The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from isna_la_wica:


Of course, any good farmer and Christian would feed their live stock.

Proverbs 12:10 Amplified Bible (AMP)
10

A righteous man has kind regard for the life of his animal,
But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.

Exodus 23:4 Amplified Bible (AMP)
4 “If you meet your enemy’s ox or his donkey wandering off, you must bring it back to him.

And in direct relation to the Sabbath, one of the reasons was so that the work animals could rest:

Exodus 23:12 Amplified Bible (AMP)
12 “Six days [each week] you shall do your work, but on the seventh day you shall stop [working] so that your ox and your donkey may settle down and rest, and the son of your female servant, as well as your stranger, may be refreshed.


That goes against saying that animals should not be fed , so we can rest.

I have known Sabbath keepers as well , living in a Mennonite area. And yes, they feed their live stock on their Sabbath.

My previous post was in regards to the ones who think they should not fed on the Sabbath, or that letting them "fast " for a day, is no problem.


Equalizer has me block so I am not getting all the conversation but I know in the past he has made an issue about doing humanitarian work or necessary jobs such medical, police etc.

2/13/2018 2:20:39 PMrencontre avec africaine en france The 4th. commandment 
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Yes Nubian is on Block.

Yes SDA, have a special exemption, by Nubian own testimony. To work on the Sabbath. While those in SDA, who are not humanitarian. Do not get the exemption. They should observe the Sabbath.

2/13/2018 8:04:42 PMwat is prostituee The 4th. commandment 
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I was doing some research about Animals fasting. It mostly centered around cattle. Im sure each Animal is different. For instance i found a species of bird that fasts for many days on its winter exodus to a warmer climate. I saw some Articles cows can go months without food, but only days without water. So obviously water is Important.

I went down a path about Animal Transport Regulations, and a lot were very long PDF form. So i didnt get too much from them, too much time wading through it all. I saw one person say current regulation allows for Cattle transport for 52 hours without food or water. That was on a pro Animal rights website. I think it was Canada based. Yet it had no link.

So there was a lot of chatter about Grazing in winter and can the Cow get enough nutrients. They could and do eat snow. Same with sheep and other such animals that can survive the weather.

One farm Blog, mentioned you could feed a bunch of Hay, to a cow, as a matter of fact you could give them the all you can eat buffet, but if it didnt have the right nutrients, it was worthless. I learned this long ago, on a major Alfalfa operation, you had to harvest at the right times, to get the best nutrients you could, and put it up right(stack,bale, store) to have proper and best nutrients in the hay. So, again they gave formulas like 37 to 43 pds of hay a day for proper nutrients on low level nutrient hay.

So im not going to shy away with my original statement. You could give a double portion on the beginning of Sabbath, they could eat it all in one sitting and they wouldnt get fed for what another 18 hours say it took them 6 hours to eat the double portion. Or some other similar set of numbers. If it had the proper nutrients, they wouldnt lack. They would just maybe suffer a bit between the long meals. Then at the end of sabbath you could give them extra too. That should keep them fat and happy and full of proper nutrients. Or supplement them after sabbath.

Of course i mentioned Animals can be trained. Listen Dumb Cows, know when its about feeding time. Now if they started getting the extra one night they might finally learn to save a bit for the next day cuz they aint getting fed till evening. Thus learning a feeding cycle. I think thats very doable. IMO....limited opinion, again im not telling anyone to do anything. But im not a animal abuser or stupid either.

Then i found a website about Orthodox and Animals, which divided up into pets and livestock. They also mentioned feeding as necessity. Then i learned some about some Talmudic writings on the subject, which in my opinion, werent too bad. There was a couple things, like if your pet has a tendency to run off, you couldnt put your leash on the pet outside, you had to do it inside. Or you couldnt pet your pet on Sabbath or something like that. There was some good stuff also. You can study it if you wish.

Now where it got kind of funny for me on Orthodox jews and Milk cows. Was, they say you shouldnt cause distress to animals, which is true, Its biblical Righteous man cares for the life of Animals. This was said because in milking operations, the Cows produce milk, and if it stays in the utter, it becomes painful in one day, or shortly. So they have to milk on Sabbath right. Of course. Now they didnt say there was an EXEMPTION for Dairy farmers for Sabbath, but, it seems there might be. This is where it got kind of funny. So when Israel went back to the Land in 1948, Dairy Production was really important. Very important to the economy also. So Milking on Sabbath was acceptable. For the Nation. This NATIONALISM winked at the Milking.

Then the Orthodox, they were good Jews they wanted to be more biblically correct in the Sabbath, and so they say its alright to hire the gentiles to milk for them. Yet, because of the IMPORTANCE of Nationalism, they wanted the milking Jobs for Jews only. (Did Trump get that from the Jews) Thailand says Thai only first.

Soo they have automated stuff now, and to avoid milking on Sabbath, with Jews only, they get them Stalled and ready and dont turn on the machines till Sabbath. But i think the milk cant be sold, because part of Kosher was, no Sabbath work put into it. Remember you have to milk the cow daily anyways because of pain.

So heres the Kicker, and the extra level of funny to me. Dairy cows to give milk have to lactate or be pregnant. Im not sure on all this, so check it out. Dairy cows lactate, but might not get pregnant, they can also fake pregnancy a Dairy cow to cause it too give milk. The best milk producers are the ones who actually calve. So they have all this down to a science.....all for MONEY......on how to have efficient pregnant dairy cows. Taking them out of their environments and regular scheduled lifestyles and simulate a life for them, which kind of goes AGAINST nature....IMO.......all to make money on top of keeping Sabbath and making milk.

The calves fed milk REPLACER!

A scripture comes to mind.

Psalm 106:35 But they mingled with the Gentiles And learned their works;

A small mom and Pop, would have a cow, let it calf, use some of its milk for dairy now and then, maybe slaughter it later and the Calf takes her place. You know something more natural and more humane.

Boy have we got making money and Animal husbandry down to a science now. Some of these Milk cows live their lives just to produce milk.......Do they get naps?

So isnt that kind of cruel?

2/13/2018 9:47:51 PMrencontres amicales dans le lot The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from isna_la_wica:
You are 100 % correct.

There are so many variables involved in the healthy feeding of Live stock. Weather, temp, age of the animal, what kind of feed, it all come into play.

And there is a balance that must be obtained , between the various types of feed, that must be maintained, along with water intake and vitamins required. For example, a mature Cow in winter requires from 10 to 15 gallons of water a day. No, you can not skip that or feed for a day, with out interfering with their mild production, lactation etc. And shut shutting them down for 1 out of every 7 days? Does effect their health, Calving performance etc.

Feeding is even affected by the temperature. Some thing we in the north have to follow closely. For every - 5degrees Celsius that the temp is below - 20 degrees C, they require an 1 lb of grain , but even that depends on the quality of the grass/ straw or hay they are fed. And if the temp drops below -35 degrees, that grain ration, increases to 3 extra lbs.

Sabbath keeping Cows, is rather silly, in every way. So if any body insists that they must keep the Sabbath, and cannot feed their animals? Do not become farmers and then blame Gods laws for making them suffer. Then again, they should not be on here on their chosen day anyway, they are using electricity and making Power Engineers work !

God placed you in charge of the animals, its a responsibility that should never be taken lightly. And the same goes for Police, health care workers, many essential occupations.

I would worry more about braking that responsibility on judgement day, than breaking rules for Jews.

God approves of what you do. So you are right to keep on caring for them, 7/24/ 365.







2/13/2018 11:16:37 PMsite rencontre ivoirienne The 4th. commandment 
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Im sorry to muck up your thread a little bit. Rtay, However i am researching and not only trying to find out about IAMSAVED's original question. Pertaining to Sabbath. Livestock/work and Sabbath. Not only will it help me understand. I have an interest and leading to raise some livestock. So it affects me Personally.

I am also looking at it from the Perspective of How God intended it, back in the Day. Not in today's world with all the technology and wisdom. Did God want them to be commercial livestock raisers? How could they have handled their livestock on Sabbath. I think God was speaking about their own little flocks, im sure some had huge flocks. Did they have to decrease their flocks to come under the Sabbath rule, or were their Gentiles in the midst of the Desert with them. Certainly when they increased after taking over the Promised land, they probably had servants that could help.

Feeding times were mentioned. I found this on Cattle.


rencontres cme Once/day feeding of feedlot cattle might work for you.

In most cattle feedlots, cattle are fed the finishing ration more than once/day. Feeding more often has the assumed benefit that providing fresh feed will stimulate intake and result in improved animal performance. Additionally, many feedlots don't have adequate bunk capacity to hold a 24-hour allotment of feed; thus, multiple feedings are a necessity.

Colorado State University feedlot researchers at the Southeastern Colorado Research Center conducted a study to determine the effects of once, twice and three times/day feeding on finishing-steer performance and carcass traits. Steers were housed in 30 pens of nine head each and were fed a total of 170 days. The once/day feeding treatment was fed at 8 a.m.; twice/day feedings occurred at 7:30 a.m. and 1 p.m.; and the three times/day steers were fed at 7 and 10 a.m., and 2 p.m. Feed calls were made daily prior to the initial morning feeding.

Interestingly, cattle fed once vs. twice daily had identical performance. Feed intake, daily gain, slaughter and carcass weight, and all other economically important production parameters were not different between steers fed once and those fed twice daily.

Cattle feeders and farmer-feeders who routinely feed twice/day may consider cutting back their feeding schedule to once/day. This could reduce labor, machinery wear and the overall cost of feeding. Some factors to consider before making such a change, however, include bunk capacity, uniformity of the ration mix being delivered to multiple bunks, bunk management to prevent out-of-condition feed, and wintertime feeding conditions.

The study also found that steers fed three times/day consumed more feed and had greater daily gains and heavier slaughter and carcass weights than steers fed once or twice daily. conjugaison verbe rencontrer futur Feed-to-gain, dressing percentage and USDA quality and yield grades were not affected by feeding frequency. In feedlots where once/day feeding isn't feasible, or in commercial feedlots, three/day feeding seems most economical.

http://www.beefmagazine.com/nutrition/feeding-frequency-feedlot-cattle-0401

So feasibly, a 1 time feeding for cattle for 24 hours is sufficient. Especially on Sabbath. If the Cattle have special needs that require more than once a day ,even on Sabbath, will it affect them, if missed on Sabbath and resumed the other 6 days......Doubt it.

We dont need to work 7 days, sure it would benefit us, if we did, but only financially. The toll on the body might cost more in the long run.

Commercial livestock is, Customary work. IMO.....that may be a whole other beast with its own set of Sabbath rules.

2/14/2018 12:44:58 AMrencontre femme 45 48 ans The 4th. commandment 
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Ok so I was researching feeding and care for turkeys, chicken and sheep. Looked at feeders, watering systems, feeding frequency. All kinds of stuff. Also through experience with Chickens, sheep, horses cattle, pigs.

I am fully convinced. God does not make a command, that you cannot reasonably, carry out.

If God intended special exemptions at Sabbath. He gave them. To the priests.

I am also convinced God's not a legalistic Pharisee.

Nor does he wink at sin.

The question that made me research was, did God exempt livestock raisers, from doing customary work?

No is the answer.

I am convinced, that there isn't a simple feeding system, back in the day that that would make some livestock raisers, have to work on the Sabbath.

Frozen water is an issue. Yet snow is eatable. Turkeys may die, or WIll die with cold water. Yet, the question would be, should we take a animal out of its natural environment, and gain exemption from Sabbath?

Well if you want to take on the extra burden. Test God. Knock yourself out. I'm not sure it will keep you from Heaven. Why would we test God?

If you do take on the burden. I know easy ways to make watering systems, for warm water. Don't you have to keep a Turkey warm too? If so, then the water won't freeze.

If you broke ice on water troughs, sabbath eve, and it froze, I've seen cows ,horses, pigs smart enough to break through. Unless it was froze solid for a few days, then they need help. Yet we are only talking one 24 hr period of not working. I don't think unexpected emergencies are a problem. God's not a legalist.

If your just someone, who doesn't plan ahead and wants to rebel and go pick up sticks on the sabbath because you don't care, or whatever. Gid knows thst too.

Why is everyone looking for loopholes and exemptions, God's looking for people eager to follow and go with the program.

2/14/2018 5:56:53 AMmon bled rencontre algerie The 4th. commandment 

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Equalizer21 Quote:

Im sorry to muck up your thread a little bit. Rtay, However i am researching and not only trying to find out about IAMSAVED's original question. Pertaining to Sabbath. Livestock/work and Sabbath. Not only will it help me understand. I have an interest and leading to raise some livestock. So it affects me Personally.

you know it was kind of nice to see a lot of people relate to farming. No Catholic cows,
SDA horses,or Jewish camels,just animals.

Thank you for you post in the Messiah thread,I could not respond cause I needed a bump,
I used that somewhat, to move to the topic of "The Just shall live by Faith" in a new thread concerning the Old Testament.I feel this would lead to debating certain issues in the Old Testament mote.rt

2/14/2018 10:37:33 AMrencontre langon 33 The 4th. commandment 
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[Quote]you know it was kind of nice to see a lot of people relate to farming. No Catholic cows,
SDA horses,or Jewish camels,just animals

I used to be an AMERICAN swine producer., I hear ya though.

So something I got out of this lesson,was to be prepared to do extra vigilance with Animals, if I am taking them out of their natural environment, and I'm not pointing fingers. So that I can still raise them, in a Godly way. Still honor God on the Sabbath, because for me and my house it's a Joy to honor the Sabbath and enter his rest. Besides his commands are not burdensome.

One aspect of keeping the Sabbath was, that Israel would be a light, something set apart for God.

Deut 4

Therefore be careful to observe them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes, and say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’

7 “For what great nation is there that has God so near to it, as the Lord our God is to us, for whatever reason we may call upon Him?

So we could be an example to the world. Or Israel could be, and the grafted in branches, could be. Unfortunately in America, we can't say that anymore really. We don't keep a national sabbath anymore. We look and act like the world in dress, work, lifestyle,living.......ok I could write pages here.

So the problem I have with Exemption on Sabbath, everybody gets one huh? Then why have Sabbath. That's the kind of attitude and Lifestyle that was the downfall of the Israelites. Then the Pharisees of it all. The Elite ism in it.

Personally it makes me sick.

I personally and I think God thinks, people shouldn't be taking Jobs that make them work on Sabbath. I believe it's worldliness. It's like the Types of Egypt.

God doesn't mind us being Rich and wealthy site de rencontre pour personnes agees IF we can handle it. Thus all the warnings about, wealth and riches, and command them not to be haughty, or trust in uncertain riches,and riches are also a snare, a testimony against us.

So if we don't take a Job, because of Sabbath concience. Doesn't that fall into the category of, leaving all for him, and having abundant reward in heaven?

Wow, what a concept to choose between a job, and riches, and a comfortable lifestyle now, or Serve the Lord. Maybe God's got a better job, better pay for you? And, you don't have to work on Sabbath. Or maybe he takes you up on your love and devotion and prunes you more and causes you to actually suffer, or suffer loss, in relation to the kingdom of God and his glory?

So if you want to throw stones at me for my stance for God. I've got my Sheild, have at it. I'm a soldier.

I believe God can bless my livestock, and their feed and rest and fastings. I don't believe I need to go to the world's higher education institutions. They didn't have any in the Desert. I believe God can make sure my animals get pregnant, that they produce great meat, abundant milk. Enough for me and my household and any servants or strangers that come älong. I believe God can keep disease me and my house and animals from Disease.

If it doesn't rain, or there is disease, or they get taken by predator, or theif. I believe somethings wrong and I need to fix it, either with my personal relationship, or lifestyle, or animal practices. God will be my help and sheild. So even if I didn't know how to get maximum efficiency out of milk cows, or baby reproduxtion, because I was BUSY resting..... (labor to enter rest).....or I was busy praying or preaching or milking the cow and didn't have time for higher education. Father God knows everything. I can put my trust in him.

Exodus 23:25
“So you shall serve the Lord your God, and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you

There's a promise from covenants of old, that today's church never talks about, because they have the New improved version, and Doctors, and all that stuff was done away with.........ok if it was done away with........you can't claim the promises either, and exemptions, violate the covenant so you don't get the promise either.

You know I personally hate spiritual thieves that Rob God's people of the exceeding great and precious promises, even the ones that keep us from corruption and decay.

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There are no Catholic cows but there are Catholic chickens.

Haven't you ever heard of Pope-yes Chicken?

2/14/2018 10:53:25 AMmeet montelimar The 4th. commandment 
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Deuteronomy 7:13
And He will love you and bless you and multiply you; He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your land, your grain and your new wine and your oil, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flock, in the land of which He swore to your fathers to give you


I know a biblical story of one who through Faith and Patience, inherited the Promises.

She didn't have a child, and something was wrong there. So she took it to God in prayer. She didn't murmur and complain. She didn't run to the fertility, merchants........

She went to get some grace and mercy at God's throne.

Rachael was her name.

You don't get the promises if you aren't grafted in. You don't get the promises, if you have something, new, different, shiny, that looks and sounds like the real thing. You have to partake of the covenants of promise.

You don't get the promises without Faith

You don't get them without obedience.

You don't get them by changing the conditions or bylaws, that weren't changed to begin with.

You don't get them by easy believism.

All the good stuff comes by digging deep, pulling up the ol boot straps of living the life.

2/14/2018 7:10:48 PMrencontres aquitaine The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from Equalizer21:
Yes Nubian is on Block.

Yes SDA, have a special exemption, by Nubian own testimony. To work on the Sabbath. While those in SDA, who are not humanitarian. Do not get the exemption. They should observe the Sabbath.


Question for you Equalizer
Was David a shepherd before he became King?
And while he was a shepherd do you think he let his flock go without food on the Sabbath.

Ancient Israel was an agrarian culture.
That meant someone had to feed and water the livestock.

So do you think they let their animals go without food and water?

The bottom line is you want to show how if you are to truly keep the Sabbath then some how in your mind you expose it as a burden.

The bible says, site rencontre oran algerie "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and prostituee vermoord arnhem his commandments are not grievous."

Those things that you want to attach as far as do's and don'ts were what the pharisees (et. al) had done.

Even they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath with their man made laws.

2/14/2018 8:26:15 PMrencontre bd st junien The 4th. commandment 
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nubian said:The bottom line is you want to show how if you are to truly keep the Sabbath then some how in your mind you expose it as a burden.


Interesting, can you show me where I did that?

I said this a few posts up about not working on Sabbath.

rencontre amicale auxerre Still honor God on the Sabbath, because for me and my house it's a Joy to honor the Sabbath and enter his rest. Besides his commands are not burdensome.

So I'm not following your thinking,it might help to copy paste where I did that.

I will say it again. God said: No customary work on Sabbath. No burden for me there. I've done work with Unions,I am skilled at getting outta work. When God gives me permission to get outta work, I'm in Heaven.

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Really though. I have a t-shirt, that reads in big bold letters.

Jesus said:

Go Fishing

He didn't say anything about, fixing the leaky faucet, working on the car, painting the house,.....................


I want to add, I worked for the Govt also, so along with Union work. I am highly skilled at getting outta work. No burden for me.

2/15/2018 2:02:44 AMmac et prostituées The 4th. commandment 
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Quote from a_nubian:
Question for you Equalizer
Was David a shepherd before he became King?
And while he was a shepherd do you think he let his flock go without food on the Sabbath.

Ancient Israel was an agrarian culture.
That meant someone had to feed and water the livestock.

So do you think they let their animals go without food and water?

The bottom line is you want to show how if you are to truly keep the Sabbath then some how in your mind you expose it as a burden.

The bible says, rencontre avec des femmes riches au cameroun "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and rencontre maitre spirituel his commandments are not grievous."

Those things that you want to attach as far as do's and don'ts were what the pharisees (et. al) had done.

Even they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath with their man made laws.




2/15/2018 6:44:02 AMfrench past participle of rencontre The 4th. commandment 

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Quote from Equalizer21:
Interesting, can you show me where I did that?

I said this a few posts up about not working on Sabbath.

site de rencontre saguenay lac st jean Still honor God on the Sabbath, because for me and my house it's a Joy to honor the Sabbath and enter his rest. Besides his commands are not burdensome.

So I'm not following your thinking,it might help to copy paste where I did that.

I will say it again. God said: No customary work on Sabbath. No burden for me there. I've done work with Unions,I am skilled at getting outta work. When God gives me permission to get outta work, I'm in Heaven.


Because of your statement:
rencontre sur metz "Yes SDA, have a special exemption, by Nubian own testimony. To work on the Sabbath. While those in SDA, who are not humanitarian. Do not get the exemption. They should observe the Sabbath."

That is the reason why I responded to you re: "a SDA special exemption."

4th Commandment:
Man should not labor on the Sabbath.
His animals should not labor on the Sabbath.

Man is allow to eat on the Sabbath
His animals are allow to eat on the Sabbath.

Equalizer don't interject an absurd notion that those (farmers/ranchers) who feed their animals some how are breaking the Sabbath.

The last I checked being a farmer was an honorable labor.

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Equalizer don't interject an absurd notion that those (farmers/ranchers) who feed their animals some how are breaking the Sabbath


God said no customary work. Then God said, gather enough mana for two days to feed yourself, (thus, your not customarily,working to feed yourself on Sabbath).

So any notion I can't transfer, or try to figure out how that applies to animal feeding on Sabbath, is not correct.

I would think all my Brothers and Sisters in the Lord, would be doing the same. Is it greed for them no too? Why don't we think alike in trying to solve this?

So I'm not convinced my line of thinking is wrong.

So there isn't any mistakes in the future, I never SAID:They couldn't feed on Sabbath.